Charter school amendment passes handily

Hurrah! The AJC Get Schooled blog is reporting that “In a 58 to 42 percent vote, Georgians adopted a constitutional amendment yesterday that will put the state back in the business of approving charter schools over the objections of local boards of education.

The assumption is that the Legislature will reconstitute the appointed commission that was in place before the state Supreme Court struck it down a year ago, setting the stage for this bitter amendment battle. (See AJC Jim Galloway’s column tomorrow on the political ramifications of this political fight, which pitted the Republican state school superintendent against the GOP governor and House leadership.)”

One of the first responses to the amendment passage came from Nina Gilbert, executive director of Ivy Preparatory Schools.

In an email, Gilbert said:

“In the words of statesman Frederick Douglass ‘If there is no struggle, there is no progress.’ We have been in the trenches fighting for the right for parents to choose their children’s schools for more than five years. I am so glad that the end of this fight is near and rests in the hands with the people of Georgia.

Our goal in the charter community has been and always will be to put children first and work to close the achievement gap. We do this by giving parents the option to choose schools with innovative programs, small class sizes and teachers who have the autonomy to make sure students learn at high levels. We offer alternatives for students assigned to low performing schools and students who want a new environment that challenges them. We have done our very best to serve our scholars, engage our parents and meet every requirement mandated by law.”

Also offering comment tonight was state Rep. Alisha Morgan of Austell who said, “This is what happens when you put politics aside and you bring black, white, young and old together and you just focus on the kids. This is the right thing. Kids won tonight.”

We agree!!

Relevant links on the topic:

Do Public Charter Schools Hurt Students in Traditional Public Schools?

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38 Responses to Charter school amendment passes handily

  1. ursokm16 says:

    I have no doubt that Nina Gilbert’s goal was to close the achievement gap–the school would not have been originally approved by Gwinnett and DeKalb otherwise. The achievememnt gap will not be the emphasis with “communities” (groups of residents) making applications for new schools and five times as many private companies in the state.

  2. We’ll see. We disagree – we think that this is an opportunity for local communities to take charge of their own neighborhood schools. Opening a charter school takes a lot of community support and there are communities all over this county that could and hopefully will benefit by having the option to create a charter school for their children.

    Believe it or not – all curricula, textbooks, test makers and other providers to traditional public schools are for-profit corporations (note the recent board approved purchase of $9 million to Pearson for textbooks). The companies making a fortune off of the new testing mandates are the ones that bother us the most. We hope the charter school movement will also place restraints on the out of control testing movement as well.

    To find out how to put the brakes on the testing mandates in your community, check out the blog of one of our new heroes, Kris L. Nielsen, a teacher in North Carolina who quit, rather than teach to the mandated tests. He is helping communities stand up against so many mandated tests on children.

    [BTW, we have a great collection of interesting links on the right side panel of the blog… check them out!]

  3. Don’t get us wrong, we fully believe in and support traditional public schools! We simply don’t believe that your local, assigned public school should be your only choice for your child. Choice will invigorate competition and new education models will arise. Some will be great and will set a path to follow, some may not do well at all – but if they are charters, unlike traditional schools, they will close due to low interest, which would be due to low achievement. Parents will shop for the right school for their child, if given the chance!

    That said, we have far more work to do to improve traditional public schools in DeKalb rather than worry about whether or not a few charters pop up here and there. If we have fantastic, local, traditional public schools, there will be no ‘customers’ looking for an escape hatch.

    This statement from Diane Ravitch’s blog is the most succinct and relevant one we’ve found outlining the work to be done –

    President Obama Re-Elected, and Now…

    Now that President Obama has been re-elected, supporters of public education must redouble our efforts to end educational malpractice and rejuvenate American education.

    It’s time to stop the privatization of public education.

    It’s time to stop using invalid methods to judge teacher quality.

    It’s time to stop high-stakes testing.

    It’s time to stop closing schools.

    It’s time to stop teaching to the tests.

    It’s time to end the obsession with data and test-based metrics.

    It’s time to support students and teachers and public schools.

    It’s time to enrich the curriculum with the arts, history, civics and foreign languages for all children.

    It’s time to think about what’s good for children, what will really improve education, and what will truly encourage creativity and ingenuity.

    It’s time to think about reviving the spirits of educators and the joy of teaching and learning.

    The election is over. The struggle for the heart and soul of American education continues.

  4. ursokm16 says:

    Interesting–Ravitch has written strongly about the corruption in the proliferation and abuses of private companies running–and in some cases owning charter schools. Ravistch has serious problems with school choice in general. Even tho the quote shows she is against testing (who isn’t but the companies as you stated), however she definitely sees the end of testing in the context of traditional public schools. Ravitch is in favor of a complete makeover of public schools, run by public employees–not private ones (more or less the Finnish model). She writes about the fallacy of market based competiton and the myth of “failing schools”. You got the wrong babe for your general thesis on the new law’s promise.

  5. No, we just happen to be able to see solid points from people that we sometimes disagree with on the big issues. We are all pointed toward the same goal: Improving the delivery of education in the US and for us, in Georgia and DeKalb. It’s broken. Let’s fix it. We see charter schools as one part of the solution. Diane does not. We won’t hold it against her, as she has great ideas overall… We do agree for example, that the idea of ‘failing’ schools is a fallacy. Children should not be judged as failures, it’s demeaning.

  6. For some solid info on the funding aspect, check the Georgia Public Policy Foundation blog’s recent post on a GA Tech mathematical study that concluded that public charters do not harm traditional public schools:

    Also, a new report released nationally by the Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice challenges the concept that public school costs are so fixed that they cannot be adjusted up or down. “The Fiscal Effects of School Choice Programs on Public School Districts” breaks down fixed and variable costs for an average public school system in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

    The study shows that charter schools actually cost less than traditional public schools and that the leftover funding has a positive effect on those traditional school’s performance.

    “The report focuses almost entirely on financial analysis but it does offer this teaching point:”

    “As public schools lose students via school choice or for any other reason, they have a tremendous opportunity to improve the quality of their schools. When students leave, schools can lay off the least effective teachers. The students who remain would be reallocated to more effective teachers and their academic achievement would increase significantly.”

    To download the report, click here:

    Click to access the-fiscal-effects-of-school-choice-programs.pdf

    In addition, read this very good article from “The Economist” showing that “Charter schools raise educational standards for vulnerable children”

  7. Again, check out this report:

    Georgia Public Policy Foundation
    Do Charter Schools Hurt Students in Traditional Schools?
    Posted on November 5, 2012

    “A comprehensive mathematical analysis of Georgia public school funding models has found local school systems that enroll nearly nine-out-of-ten public school students would experience increased resources when a student transfers to a new or existing state charter school. This model is based on funding levels approved in 2012 by the Georgia General Assembly.”

    “Analyzing revenue and expenditures, Georgia Tech professor of economics Christine P. Ries based her calculations on the funding formula that would be used if voters approve Georgia Constitutional Amendment 1 on Tuesday, November 6. Ries concluded that most of Georgia’s 180 local school systems enrolling 89 percent of all students statewide would gain rather than lose funds when students transfer to state charter schools.” …..

  8. ursokm16 says:

    Is there such a thing as a private charter school as opposed to a “public” charter? It seems to me that charter proponents have to reach pretty far to defend the notion that charter schools are public schools. Pls don’t parrot the argument–just tell me the difference between a private charter school and a public one.

  9. Concernedmom30329 says:

    There is absolutely no such thing as a private charter school. In GA, charters must use a lottery if they have more demand than supply of spaces. They can have no standards and must serve every type of child as required by law. DeKalb’s magnet schools, which are taxpayer supported, are far more discriminatory than charters. Most have test score requirements and have limited, if any, services for children with special needs.

  10. Exactly true, concernedmom. There is NO SUCH THING as a private charter school. All charter schools are public schools that must accept applicants from all around the county [unless they have an approved attendance zone in their charter] and they cannot have entrance requirements other than being a resident. If more apply than there are seats, then a lottery is held.

    And yes, our magnet schools are the ones that discriminate and set up entrance requirements. Worse, our magnets, specialty and theme schools often spend far more per student than charters will ever hope to be allocated by the state. Kittredge spends over $11,000 and Wadsworth spends over $13,000 per student. DSA is over $12,000. While the average per pupil funding at traditional public schools is around $8,000 or so per pupil. Charters, on the other hand, are only guaranteed the state contribution, which is about 50-60% of what we spend in total when you add the local contribution, which charters do not receive (unless the board approves a special contribution).

    Download the file we received via Open Records last year – compare spending at Title 1 vs non-Title 1 schools and then check out the magnets.

    The data on spending for DeKalb charter schools has been hard to dig up and we are very aware now that this was a place that the finance department would under budget in order to make it look as if our budget was balanced (same for electricity and legal fees), even though they knew the charter spending would be much more due to higher enrollments than used for the budget calculations. The school system can decide to add more to the charter beyond what the state provides, and the board has chosen to do so for Destiny Charter a few times. Also, charters can qualify for Title 1 funds as well and spending those funds must follow the same rules as the traditional schools spending for Title 1.

  11. ursokm16 says:

    Sounds workable in theory, but not the way the real world works. In the end, we’re not talking about school system funding, we’re talking about the schools themselves. First, schools will lose unequal %s of kids. A school in a poor neighborhood (assuming it “gets” a charter school or two or three)–there will be bigger demand for the spaces than in an affluent area with more proficient schools. Maybe they disperse 20% of students at the least. Maybe the schools at the top lose 5%. Taking the 5% case, in the case of say, Oak Grove–that’s about 20 students. What you’re saying is the loss of revenue for 20 students can be covered with a commensurate reduction in cost. Not possible.

    Second, in the case of a massive dump from a poor school, the only way anywhere near a loss of 80 students from each of five 5 schools in say a high school district, is to consolidate schools and sell off surplus space. Assuming the consolidation can be accomplished in reality (one bussing will cost more and two it will take a few years)–and then the sale of property and all supplies for revenue–you still have the challenge of identifying the manner of which central costs can be reduced. It can be done–anything can be done–but in what amount of time.
    As long as we’re dealing in theories by the good economist, the reality of “ramp down” being totally apples vs “ramp up” oranges in terms of time is an economic study in and of itself, including opportunity costs and externalities involved with neighborhood disruption (consider how the school unit behaves as a part of a specific neighborhood.

    Bottom line is I really don’t think anyone has thought of the impact the various structures of “community” will be in a “community” charter school. In one case, it may be a high school district–in another it may be common sense pieces of several high school districts. It may three elementary school zones. It might be three statewide “community” virtual schools. How can you possibly put a valid economic analysis together if you have no basis in law, regulation for assumptions about where the students would come from and go to.

  12. ursokm16 says:

    Amazing that people can applaud the advent of more lotteries. The magnet lotteries and pre-K lotteries have been a subject of neighborhood consternation since their inception. My guess is when people realize that a given charter school in their “community” is projected to only provide 20% of the number of seats desired, the community will either be successful at turning back the application (not enough “community” support)–or there will obviously be a need for more and more schools and seats in order to calm everyone down. Lotteries are anti-social–they are not something toapplaud or look forward to.

  13. In fact, a study was conducted at Ball State to see if charter schools were underfunded and they found that they were – by about 20% less than traditional public schools.

    The 2006-07 numbers showed:

    On average, charter schools received $2,247 less per pupil than district schools would have received to educate the same students, representing a disparity of 19.2 percent. Our estimates show that in every state in this study, charter schools received less per pupil than district schools would have received. The disparity ranged from $506, or 5.1 percent, in Indiana, to $12,283, 41.2 percent, in Washington, D.C.2 In an average-sized charter school with 250 students, the disparity would have been almost $562,000.

    In Georgia, the underfunding disparity was found to be 24%.

    CHARTER SCHOOL FUNDING: Inequity Persists
    May 2010
    Meagan Batdorff, Larry Maloney, Jay May
    Daniela Doyle, Bryan Hassel

    Download the full report and the very interesting specific report on Georgia. Hopefully, this group will conduct an updated study again very soon.

  14. Well, so far, our charters in DeKalb have not had to hold lotteries. Unlike Kittredge. The only reason for a lottery is that charters do not have attendance zones, so they cannot estimate enrollment. Also, they cannot afford to add trailers or additions to buildings.

  15. Again, you can noodle on the numbers all day long, but a Georgia Tech professor conducted an in-depth mathematical study and concluded that charter schools do not harm funding to traditional schools and in fact, can cause funding to the traditional school to increase. (Traditional schools get local tax dollars – as well as SPLOST.)

    In case you missed the link earlier, here it is:

    Download it and read it.

  16. Now, your theory does have a ring of truth in that the proliferation of charters could cause traditional schools to lose enrollment and have to consolidate. Doubtful that many parents in the schools that do a good job would have an interest in applying to a charter, however, all children are not exactly the same, and there will always be children who will do better in a different environment. It’s really doubtful though, that a few charters could cause a mass exodus in the better schools in DeKalb.

    That said – it’s interesting that this has already happened in DeKalb due to the proliferation of theme and choice schools, which are traditional schools that function outside of an attendance zone. These proliferated under the leadership of Dr. Lewis. He was very proud that DeKalb offered more school choice than anywhere in the state.

    The old DSW blog posted an in-depth report on that exact effect in south DeKalb for elementary schools.

    Read it here:

  17. JL says:

    The statement about DeKalb charters not holding lotteries is incorrect. Please check your facts. Despite a defined attendance zone stretching from I-285/Memorial through Avondale and including Midway, the demand is greater than the resource and the Museum School of Avondale has held lotteries each year and maintains a waiting list for certain grades.

  18. I stand corrected. Didn’t realize the Museum School held a lottery. Now starting into its third school year, the Museum School just officially opened in its new facility this year (the former Forrest Hills Elementary School). Glad to see demand is high. Hopefully they will be able to expand to accommodate all students who wish to attend in this larger facility.

  19. ursokm16 says:

    That article is what I was responding to. Again, her presumptions are system-wide and not applicable to the school level/classroom level. Maybe the difference in the way we see things is that I am concerned about the loss of students from each different school–and in my case, understand what losses to the school IN STUDENTS is costly to a school and a community in externalities such as brain drain and reputation, not just in real dollars–and externalities must be considered if an economist is allowed to set her own premise. One must INDEED noodle the numbers–ALWAYS.

    In the real world of school by school expenses, the notion even of zero sum is preposterous, let alone MAKING money on the loss of students. Does she even go to the trouble of determining what the breakeven point is where her supposed theory breaks down? In the extreme, the premise would lead to the school system profiting by losing ALL students. She’s an economist–they play with numbers–and their premise is always theoretical and to set a premise first and back into it. Economics is not a science, its more marketing.

    BTW–do you know anything about Georgia Public Policy Foundation and who funds it? The study and the organization have no credibility.

  20. Aloysius Snuffleupagus says:

    This is from an email sent out by Rep. Mary Margaret Oliver on Saturday Nov 3rd.

    “I will vote NO on AMENDMENT No. 1 which creates a new state authority to override local school board’s decisions on starting charter schools.

    In DeKalb County, we have good charter schools that have developed over the last decade plus, and multiple other theme or special designation schools. The entire City of Decatur School System is a charter system under one of the state laws the General Assembly has passed. The existing system works for the most part, not perfectly, but with local decision-making and financial authority. The constitutional amendment takes money away from local school systems, and focuses on a few thousand children out of 1.7 million children in public school in Georgia. Today, about 27,000 children attend some form of “charter school” and new schools are being created with local and community leadership. The shift of authority to state control disrupts financial control and authority and can result in different spending for children in different local schools. And, particularly irritating to me, the language of the amendment on your ballot is intentionallly (sic) misleading.”

    Disappointed, I am.

  21. ursokm16 says:

    My point has always been not to dislike charter schools, but dislike the new law. It is poorly thought out–like the original one in terms of potential for unintended consequences–such as the number of lotteries that the mass proliferation potential of full funding–and they are disruptive. The requirement that they be “community” schools is solely to sell the idea of community control and parental control (which is desirable, but also unproven)–and by defining as “community” brings in the possibility of MANIPULATING attendance zones, unfair attendance repercussions such as leaving no one but the poorest families (with parents of lesser ability to find out about the school, make volunteer commitments and get a ride to school)…and once again, all of the social ills between parents that “make it” and their own neighbors that don’t.

  22. ursokm16 says:

    I’m having trouble with DOE website, can you advise as to how to use Dek Schools webiste to find the demographics of each school?

  23. ursokm16 says:

    I hear this a lot–that we won’t lose many students from Lakeside school zone. I don’t buy it, given the possibility for much smaller class sizes.
    Also, I’m wondering what the effect of families that would have gone to private schools “coming back” will do to the lottery chances of others that would have “stuck it out” in public schools.

  24. ha ha … good luck with that one. DCSS does not keep the files you seek on their website. Do an Open Records Request, or go looking through the State DOE website under FTE documents. It’s not easy to find these things.

  25. Ok, this is getting tiresome, ursokm.

    The GA Public Policy Foundation is highly credible. Are you? Do you have studies to share that refute the ones we’ve posted? That would help make your case. Your dismissive attitude toward highly skilled professionals like the GA Tech professor and the citizen legislative watch group is insulting. Please bring facts to the table to support your opinions, your ‘theories’ and your suppositions.

    Please review the endorsements of the GA Public Policy Foundation –

    Also, did you download and read the other reports we cited regarding costs?
    The Ball State Study:

    The Friedman Foundation Study:

    Click to access the-fiscal-effects-of-school-choice-programs.pdf

  26. concernedmom30329 says:

    Keep in mind that it is hard for charters to find and maintain buildings. Take a look at this from the Museum School’s website.

    Trying to be a small school, support smaller class sizes and raise this kind of money for a capital campaign is not for the weak at heart. I have friends at charter schools around the country and even with affluent parents they find it difficult to raise substantial money. (

    The more expensive an area, the harder it is going to be to find affordable suitable locations for schools. That is why you can expect more schools to open in S. DeKalb, Clayton, etc than say Dunwoody or Buckhead.

    There was a recent article about the number of charter schools, across the country, that are in danger of closing because they can’t afford their buildings.

  27. DeKalb Inside Out says:

    losses to the school IN STUDENTS is costly to a school and a community in externalities such as brain drain and reputation I hope this isn’t a reason to not have state chartered schools. Please put the education of students ahead of the reputation of a school or district.

    MAKING money on the loss of students [is perposterous]. – Well, the numbers are the numbers. For every child that goes to a state chartered school, the local district has more money per child. The school no longer has to teach that child and now has more money per child. So, the local district could come out ahead of it reduces its costs effectively.

    Please tell me where any of this is playing with numbers or just plain inaccurate.

    possibility of MANIPULATING attendance zones – The attendance zones are part of the charter and must be approved. Charter applications are open to the public, so feel free to check them out. Let the approving agency know if you think the attendance zone is manipulated. I’m guessing attendance zones are at the top of the check list.

    [unfair to the] poorest families – I think the 95% percent minorities attending Ivy Prep state chartered schools in South DeKalb would disagree with you. Also, please note that many children of traditional schools are not provided transportation.

  28. Thank you DeKalb Inside Out… FWIW, this blog is different from say, the AJC blog in that we like people to bring DATA and reports to the fore for discussion. Yes, opinions are welcome, but arguing our published research with random, personal, unresearched opinions will only be tolerated for a comment or two. After that, bring us something with some meat to chew on. If you wish to blather on and run your keyboard, take it to the AJC. In fact, complain about our rules over there – lots of people do. But we like to think we have quality bloggers over quantity.

    BTW – in response to your question on the above comment, no, I wasn’t referring to you. Sorry that wasn’t clear.

  29. ursokm16 says:

    I was responding specifically to responses to my comments–one comment at a time. So seems like you guys reserve the right to have the last word. However, I do understand your interest in having links to data, etc. Certainly adds to credibility.

  30. DeKalb Inside Out says:

    Thanks DSW.
    I hope you’re not saying my last comment was “blather”ing on … that would be mean. Please let me know if I have complained about your blog somewhere … I don’t think I have. If your response was a critique of my comment, please be more specific as to what you are referring.

  31. howdy1942 says:

    With state approved charter schools, we now have an opportunity to get away from the Dekalb School Board. It has, sadly, become a fact that the controlling members of this Board will continue to be elected for as long as they want. Amendment 1 just didn’t pass by a small margin – it passed by a wide margin. Support for this Amendment 1 was broad and spanned all of Dekalb County.

    We have a poorly-run, inefficiently managed, and bloated school administration. I’ll assure you that a for-profit, if that is what is to be, would have fired Crawford Long and Pat Pope as soon as they were indicted by a grand jury. There would have been no compensation for legal expenses nor would they have been permitted to “work to the end of a contract”. Contracts assume ethical behavior. A for-profit never would have given the Superintendent a new car. They would reimburse for mileage – but he/she would have owned the car. A for-profit would have hired the best leader for the job of superintendent and would have expected a strategic and tactical plan that would have had measurable results – and the expectations would have been for those results to have been accomplished. A for-profit would have drastically reduced administration to only essential functions. Money would be concentrated on the schools where the services are rendered and where the results are achieved. SACS would have never entered the picture in the first place. If that had occurred, changes would have been made quickly. No reassignments of personnel failing to deliver results would have been made. Technology would be rampant in the classroom. That is not only good, but it is cost-efficient and best prepares students for the future.

    For years, Dekalb County has suffered from an inept, incompetent, and self-serving school board. That is about to end.

  32. Also, a successful for-profit business would never have hired someone with multiple bankruptcies — especially bankruptcies for non-essentials such as a vacation condo and kitchen cabinets, among other things. Personal bankruptcies indicate an inability to manage money — never a good thing when someone is hired to manage a billion dollar budget. Further, all comments on Atkinson from her most recent employer (Lorain, OH taxpayers) were negative. In fact, Atkinson managed to get out of town just ahead of the state, who took over Lorain schools. Finally, Atkinson’s lack of attention to detail with her resume and job application (for both DeKalb County Schools and Atlanta Public Schools) was very telling. If someone is careless about something so personally important (i.e., resume and job application), they are definitely not going to be any better on the job — something we have already seen with Atkinson.

  33. Justwondering says:

    Will teachers employed by a charter school approved by the new state board get paid the same amount of money as other teachers in the district where the charter school is located? If not, how are “public” charter schools going to offer competitive salaries as to be able to hire the best teachers? I don’t think small class size is going to entice too many teachers living in Georgia’s poor economy.

  34. concernedmom30329 says:

    Many charters have paid less than traditional schools. And charters on the national level have had greater turnover than traditional public schools.
    However, I had the opportunity to hear one of the authors of this amendment and it sounded like to me, and others there, that commission schools will be required to use state salary scale.
    There are actually very few charters that have really small class sizes and those that do, offer virtually no extras. There is one in S. Atlanta, where class sizes are tiny, but there are no specials to speak of. And no support staff, etc
    Most have class sizes that are reasonable, which is different than tiny of course.
    The funding for non virtual commission charters is estimated at about 6K a year and maybe a little extra for facilities. In metro Atlanta, it is going to be interesting to see how this works. The real estate challenge is huge and as soon as the economy picks up, the metro systems (excluding DeKalb probably which will be one of the last to recover) will end furlough days and increase their local supplements for salaries,
    The EMOs will want a profit (even if non-profit) and the negotiated funding that the authors of this legislation had to settle on might not work well for them. It will be interesting to watch.

  35. ursokm16 says:

    Private school teachers already make less than public school teachers. Also, in the case of charters and private schools, they don’t have the same certification requirements (if an at all). If I was a retiring businessman or someone in the private sector looking for a career change from the rat-race to something a little more altruistic, I would pick a leaner work environment over the bureaucracy of a public school system. That said, the key is to change the public schools, not open more “deviants” (as in “deviation”–or at least not provide the incentive to open more with full funding.

  36. ursokm16 says:

    concernedmom30329 said “The more expensive an area, the harder it is going to be to find affordable suitable locations for schools. That is why you can expect more schools to open in S. DeKalb, Clayton, etc than say Dunwoody or Buckhead.”

    Where the land and money will come from: bonds, baby… bonds (and new city school systems…next year’s big referendum)
    (city funds or the ability to underwrite will be used to locate charter schools–might even see community improvement districts underwrite funding)
    “…when they were arranging to obtain the money through bonds issued by the Alpharetta Development Authority.”
    “Wealthy investors from around te world are pouring millions of dollars into new charter school construction in the US…”

    cann you say “bubble”–this will not end well

  37. DeKalb Inside Out says:

    Are teachers employed by a charter school paid according to Georgia’s Salary Schedule?
    The charter petition defines the salary schedule for certified teachers. The salary schedule may or may not be the Georgia Annual/Monthly Teacher & Administrator Salary Schedule for teachers.

  38. Concernedmom30329 says:

    DeKalb Inside Out

    I think because they will be commission schools, there is a possibility that the state scale would be required. Jan Jones, the author of this legislation, clearly said that 80 percent of a commission school’s budget would still go to payroll. Where they can find efficiencies is in that 20 percent.

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